Panther A/Tamiya+scratch/ 534, 5th SS, Wiking

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TankIndustry
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Panther A/Tamiya+scratch/ 534, 5th SS, Wiking

Post autor: TankIndustry » 03 lipca 2015, 09:25

Friends:

I started a Tamiya Panther 1/25
I intend to base it on Panther 534 , 5th SS, Wiking.
When done, it will feature an almost complete set of shurtzen, milliput zimmerit coating and a classic 3 color camouflage scheme.

The kit is impressive but has many incorrect details and is noticeably off in scale in many areas, particularly the turret and gun.

Tamiya Panther 1/25 gun:

Gun barrel is not long enough.
Gun barrel does not include a Muzzle Brake locking collar.
Muzzle Brake is not shaped correctly.
Muzzle Brake is hollow and missing detail.

The pictures below indicate the work done to correct the gun and muzzle brake.

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Tamiya 1/25, Commanders Copula:

Copula location on the turret top is not correct ... it should line up with the turret back plate and BOTH turret right side plates.
Copula side armor is not angled steep enough relative to the vertical line of the turret top plate.
Copula side armor is not high enough in profile.

Armored periscope guards are not high enough in profile.
Armored periscope guards have no back plate.
Armored periscope guards do not look heavy enough (the plastic is molded too thin)
No periscopes are included.

Hatch lid armor is not shaped correctly around where the hatch swing arm attaches and the swing arm does not appear to be a separate part from the hatch lid (because it is molded onto the hatch lid).
Hatch lid swing arm extends too far beyond the hatch (it is too long) so the swing arm pivot axis is located too far away from the hatch lid.
The armored guard around the swing arm pivot is poor.
There is no curved bulge in the copula side armor along the vertical line of the hatch swing arm pivot.
Instead, there is an awful rectangular piece of plastic molded there

As a result, I scratch built a commanders copula retaining only the hatch lid and AA machine gun tracking ring.
Both of these parts required modification however.

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Tamiya Panther 1/25 turret:

Turret is too wide in scale.
This also applies to the Gun Mantle and Armored Gun Trunion Housing, behind the Gun Mantle.
Side armor plate angles are not correct along the base of the turret.
Rear armor plate details are poor.
Turret top weld seams are not correct
Loaders Periscope armored guard is too wide and is not located properly.
Loaders Periscope is not included.
Turret lifting loops are incorrect.
Grab handle on the top turret rear is not wide enough and is not shaped correctly.
Turret Ventilator Plate has no ventilation openings.
Armored Gun Trunion Housing is poor.
Gun Mantle is not shaped correctly in profile, is not offset relative to the turret front and the cast collar where the base of the gun is located is not thick enough in diameter and does not actually house the gun base for recoil purposes.
Steele wedges used to prevent the gun from being lowered too much are not included.

For those who do not know, Panther Gun Mantles are not symmetrical when viewed from the front.
That is, when viewed from the front, the section of frontal armor to the left of the gun base is slightly wider than the section of armor to the right of the gun base.
This is the offset I describe above.
Moreover, the gun mantle and armored gun trunion housing actually extend a bit further to the left of the turret front plate than they extend to the right, when viewed from the front. This allows the gun to be located down the center axis of the turret and hull.


I rebuilt the turret mostly from scratch.
The only kit parts retained were:

Gun Mantle
Turret bottom plate
turret side plates

The turret bottom plate was trimmed to reduce the width and correct the side plate angles.
The side plates were cut apart, refitted and resurfaced with white sheet plastic.
The Gun Mantle was modified extensively to achieve:

correct width,
correct offset
correct gun base aperture and diameter,
correct armor thickness.
correct profile shape and gun trunion fit.
binocular gun sight and rain guard

Finally, I did not replicate turret side and front plate weld joins as they would pretty much be invisible after the zimmerit coating is applied.


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Ostatnio zmieniony 22 kwietnia 2017, 05:53 przez TankIndustry, łącznie zmieniany 5 razy.
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happylappy
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Post autor: happylappy » 03 lipca 2015, 22:22

And I thought my builds were involved! You make me nervous TankIndustry, how can anybody compete with your accuracy? Seriously though, well done on your attention to detail here, it will no doubt turn out an excellent vehicle.

Here's hoping your Panther A and mine never appear in the same room together. Mine would appear a little wonky :mrgreen:

TankIndustry
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Post autor: TankIndustry » 04 lipca 2015, 00:06

HL

Thanks for your sentiments.

We work very hard on our models ... it's nice when others take notice accordingly.

As you know, these 25th scale kits are full of inaccuracies and being so large they do not go unnoticed.
I actually like the challenges they present and often that results in simply replicating the part from scratch ... observation and patience are the key, you do know!



I've followed pretty much all of your submissions and really enjoy when each new one appears on the forum. All are tremendous in detail and finish ... master class for sure.
Your ability to produce a battle worn finish is among the best I've seen ... something I have not ever really attempted ... perhaps some day.

I'll continue to add to this post as I make progress. Currently I'm working on a scratch build for the engine and cooling deck, middle plate and lid ... about half way done!

Thanks again
TankIndustry

TankIndustry
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Post autor: TankIndustry » 25 lipca 2015, 04:00

Panther 534 , Engine Deck, middle plate, door and details:

This part of the model has too many noticeable inadequacies to be retained.
Pretty much every detail is located incorrectly and is incorrect in appearance, relative to real Panther A engine deck details.
Being an entirely molded inclusion, the solution was to cut it out completely and scratch build a completely new part.

The only kit parts retained were the 4 lifting hooks but each of these was slightly modified/reshaped to achieve a more exact appearance.


The pictures below include contrasting images of the old part and the new.

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Ostatnio zmieniony 07 maja 2017, 05:53 przez TankIndustry, łącznie zmieniany 4 razy.
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PITERPANZER
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Post autor: PITERPANZER » 25 lipca 2015, 11:21

Podziwiam Twoją konsekwencję i upór w poprawianiu tych modeli.
:flag_gb:
I admire Your consistency and persistence in improving these models.
Zapraszam do sklepu/Welcome to the shop !
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TankIndustry
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Post autor: TankIndustry » 27 lipca 2015, 06:42

Thanks Piotr

This actually is my third 25th scale Tamiya armor model.

I had a JagdPanther a long time ago (35 years!)

I was not the same quality of modeler back then ... built it right out of the box and actually left most of the equipment off.
It was all hand painted using Humbrol enamels ... sand base and flat brown cammo lines ... a few years later our puppy (Yoko) chewed the entire barrel to shreds!

I'm working on the Panther upper front plate right now (bow machine gun, drivers visor and head light) ... hope to be done in the next two weeks or so.
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Post autor: PITERPANZER » 28 lipca 2015, 08:35

You can use our new resin Bosch lamp on the front.
Zapraszam do sklepu/Welcome to the shop !
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TankIndustry
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Post autor: TankIndustry » 10 września 2015, 03:56

Panther 534, Upper Front Plate

A Panther front plate is a magnificent looking piece of armor .... long, wide, thick and heavy! ... it is truly awesome when viewed up close.

There were a number of corrections and inclusions in the rework of this part of the model:

Armored Machine Gun housing is located too low relative to the top edge.
Armored Machine Gun housing has a hollow/thin appearance.
Drivers Visor aperture is located too low relative to the top edge.
Headlight is a bit too large and lacks detail.
Headlight mounting base is terrible.
Mud Guards are molded too thick and lack detail.

Scratch Build Inclusions:

Interior drivers visor assembly that can be opened and closed (the actual visor block will have a glass appearance when the model is done).
Upper portions of hull side armor, extending above the surface of the front plate, along with relevant details (bolt heads for the mud guard braces and circular extensions on the tow loop mounting lugs )

Regarding the oversized head light, I actually like the way it looked after adding the missing details so I went with it.

The headlight/mounting base and the mudguards are detachable for purposes of continued construction.

The armor weld joins, lost during rework, were not reproduced since they will not be visible once zimmerit is applied.

The brass machine gun barrel is an aftermarket part purchased from Panzer Hobby Art

The pictures below indicate the work done.

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Ostatnio zmieniony 07 maja 2017, 05:54 przez TankIndustry, łącznie zmieniany 5 razy.
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Post autor: PITERPANZER » 10 września 2015, 08:12

Hello!
I `ve seen today on Fb, on my mobile, but now on big screen looks more exclusive.
Do You know that I`ve got Bosch lamp and german base antenna.
P.S By the wat i open box with new accessories just now. Give me few Hours to add to shop.
Ostatnio zmieniony 10 września 2015, 08:20 przez PITERPANZER, łącznie zmieniany 1 raz.
Zapraszam do sklepu/Welcome to the shop !
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TankIndustry
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Post autor: TankIndustry » 24 września 2015, 05:46

Panther 534, upper hull:

The upper hull of this model has 2 major manufacturing flaws:

1) The upper hull is too long:

The section affected by this is the space between the back line of the driver and radio operator hatch deck and the 12-O'clock point on the turret ring.
This section of plastic is about a quarter of an inch too long. That translates to just over half a foot of additional hull length on a real Panther.

2) The front plate angle is not correct, relative to the horizontal line of the tank.

The angle of the original part was 40 degrees when measured from the vertical line of the tank.
The correct angle is 35 degrees.

If left uncorrected, the upper hull would be positioned too high above the running gear, entirely ruining the profile of the model.


To correct 1), I carefully cut a quarter inch section out of the hull just behind the back line of the driver and radio operator hatch deck, and joined the two remaining pieces. Of course there was a substantial amount of putty filling and sanding to perform afterward.
I'm not concerned about achieving a perfect surface finish on the sloped plates as they will be covered by milliput zimmerit anyway. However, the top surface will get additional treatment to ensure a proper final finish.



To correct 2), I carefully cut the entire front plate off and reattached it at the correct angle.
A similar angle correction had to be done to the line of contact on the lower hull side armor plates. Again, substantial putty filling and sanding were done along the join seams.
The join seam between the upper and lower hull has not been filled yet and will remain as is until later in the build.

These corrections go very far in making this model (Tamiya) look like a real Panther. The Academy Panther 1/25 does not seem to have these 2 problems.


Included in this post are the images of work done to accurately represent the joining of the final drive, semi-circular, armored guards to the front lower hull side armor, along with the 6 bolt holes where the final drive, cast gear housing attachment points are located.
The classic bevels, where the guards meet the side armor, were carefully carved out of the surface of the plastic.

The pictures below indicate the work done

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Ostatnio zmieniony 07 maja 2017, 05:54 przez TankIndustry, łącznie zmieniany 3 razy.
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TankIndustry
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Post autor: TankIndustry » 04 października 2015, 16:56

Panther 534, Road Wheels:

Both inner and outer road wheel sets are not correct at the outer rim, where the rubber meets the steel.
In fact, there is a very nasty groove molded into the outer rim plastic ... see the pictures below ... Tamiya really dropped the ball on that one!

The outer rim flange should extend slightly beyond the rubber.
The width of the rim flange is not correct:
Outer wheels should have a very thin outer rim flange.
Inner wheels should have a wide outer rim flange.
This results in a wider rubber profile on the outer wheels relative to the inner wheels.
In fact, the rubber profile on the inner wheels should be very narrow, indeed.
Finally, the inner road wheels have a significant mold seam in the middle of the track link contact surface. I assume this was Tamiya's attempt at simulating the fact that Panther inner road wheel assemblies are actually two wheel dishes bolted together. .. let's just say they dropped the ball on this one too!



These problems are not so easily corrected, unless you are lucky enough to have a tool sufficient for the task. In my case, the tool is the Unimat 200.

This mini lathe (drill press, milling machine, etc) is a precision machining tool and allowed me to evenly trim the road wheels, in accordance with the descriptions above.

A very important thing to be mindful of while doing the work is that plastic heats up while being cut this way and is vulnerable to fracturing, if there is too much cutter pressure.
Additionally, it is very easy to take it too far, believing you have not trimmed enough.

Great patience and care was necessary so as not to accidently destroy a part that is difficult to repair and/or replace.

The last thing to do was putty-fill the inner road wheel grooves and sand smooth.
The outer road wheel grooves disappeared during the trimming process.

I did think about cutting a centered groove in the inner road wheel, track link contact surfaces, in order to simulate there being two wheel dishes in the assembly but opted not to as these are not really visible on the finished model. ... gotta pick your battles, friends!!

The pictures below indicate the work done and feature a pair of before and after contrasts.


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Ostatnio zmieniony 07 maja 2017, 05:55 przez TankIndustry, łącznie zmieniany 3 razy.
TankIndustry

TankIndustry
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Post autor: TankIndustry » 01 listopada 2015, 20:13

Panther 534, Idler Wheels:

The original kit parts are completely unusable, looking nothing like real Panther A idler wheels.
Additionally, no actual idler wheel axles were provided. Tamiya opted to use a straight steel rod passing through the lower hull instead. Not a bad idea for 72nd scale but for 25th scale it's seriously criminal!

My Rework Effort:

Cut the outer rims and spokes off of the kit parts and build new wheels, using the remaining hub as a basis for construction.
Build idler wheel axles with the intent of having them adjustable, for final track tension purposes.
Replicate proper idler wheel axle housings.

The following link was tremendously useful for this work:

http://www.armortek.co.uk/Forum3b/viewt ... &start=195

I do intend to add internal mechanisms that will lock the idler wheel axles in place, when the tracks are properly tension-ed.
These will be such that they can be unlocked, if needed, and will be accessible after the model is complete.

I did omit a few details present on this section of the lower hull (around the idler wheel axle housings):

Rear plate weld joins.
Bolt openings around the idler wheel axle housings.

The zimmerit coating I intend to apply will all but cover up the weld joins and the bolt openings are not easily seen on the finished model ... as always, choose your battles!


The pictures below indicate the work done and feature before and after contrasts.



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Ostatnio zmieniony 07 maja 2017, 05:55 przez TankIndustry, łącznie zmieniany 5 razy.
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Tommy T.B.
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Post autor: Tommy T.B. » 03 listopada 2015, 13:53

I looks at your work and I am very impressed.
This old model gets from you a new life.
You create a masterpiece out of nothing.

Good job and good luck :okok:

cottbus
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Post autor: cottbus » 14 grudnia 2015, 18:57

I think your in the wrong job tankindustry should by working with Tamiya.

TankIndustry
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Post autor: TankIndustry » 18 grudnia 2015, 08:27

Panther 534 Rear Plate:

The kit part features molded on details which are not too bad but in the end fall short of higher finish standards. In particular:

The circular access plate and all port covers are positioned slightly too low relative to the rear plate top line.
Surface details on the circular access plate are not correct:

The port cover should not be round and the attachment nut heads should be recessed relative to the surface of the plate

All port covers are incorrectly shaped.
The port cover below the left exhaust is sized too large

Additional problems include:

No lower left reflector is provided.
Stowage bins have no mounting frames, poor molded on lids, no lid hinges and no lid locking clasps.
Tank Jack has no handles, no crown plate and a poor representation of the L shaped, base reinforcing collar .
Exhaust pipe mounting nuts should be recessed relative to the surface of the mounting plates.
Hull side armor, extending beyond the surface of the of the rear plate, is too thin, is not Profile-shaped correctly and is missing the circular towing loop eye extensions.

Picture below indicate the work done to correct the issues.

Additional work was done to accurately represent the exhaust system present on Panther 534 (5th SS, Wiking).
As far as I know, it was the same as that of the Panther D variants (original version of the exhaust system). Thus, the breather pipes present on the left exhaust molding had to be removed and the armored base casting had to be carefully reshaped.
The typical jack mounting configuration, in this case, was horizontal, on brackets that bolted to the bottom of the exhaust mounting bases. The brackets in question are scratch builds.

Milliput Zimmerit was also applied, in the classic vertical pattern along with horizontal and vertical, square scoring.


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Ostatnio zmieniony 07 maja 2017, 05:56 przez TankIndustry, łącznie zmieniany 4 razy.
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